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May 23

Art and Conservation with Brenton See & Sally Edmonds – Transcript

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[00:00:00] Grant Williams: Hello, bird nerds. Thanks for joining us. It's the bird emergency I'm grant Williams. I am a bird nerd, and today I am a connoisseur, a critic of art, and it's marvelous to be able to be joined by so very talented folk. And one in particular that I've been following in sort of bouncing messages back and forth for quite some time, since Teagan from Teagan Douglas, from bird life in WIA said, Hey, you got to have a look at this dude, have a look at what this guy can do with parrots and honey eaters on the side of a wall.

[00:00:39] So it's an absolute pleasure. I think let's go there. That's a bit nicer to introduce Sally Edmonds, who is up there waving, there we go. And Brenton C give us give us a wide and, mate now Brendan you're in Fremantle. Sally are you in Perth or are you in the regions?

[00:00:59] Tell us about [00:01:00] where your w mean Kalamunda now, whereas Keller Monday compared to Perth city for, those of us who don't know. Okay. And Brandon you're in Frio. So question for both of you, are your studios at your houses or have you got a dedicated workspace where you head off to work?

[00:01:19] Brenton See: You can go first, Sally.

[00:01:21] Mine's probably a bit long ago.

[00:01:22] Sally Edmonds: It's my studio right now. So I'm very, lucky. You see my house. It's nice and big big workspace, but also another room adjacent where I can got hanging systems so I can do exhibitions and things here as well. And it looks out onto my golden, which is, and there's big trees, lots of birds.

[00:01:40] So I'm happy.

[00:01:41] Grant Williams: Terrific.

[00:01:42] Brandon what about your workspace?

[00:01:45] Brenton See: Yeah, so my situation has changed over the years. Before murals, I actually did paint canvases, so I had a studio inside the city area just in a warehouse only because it was the cheapest thing I could get. [00:02:00] If you want something nice that overlooks a bit of green.

[00:02:02] The cost goes up as far as the studio goes, that's for sure. You might as well buy a house. So now, yeah, I mean, I'm in a studio in a inner city Fremantle that overlooks some of the historical streets. But this is just where I come to do admin really as a mural artists, most of the time. So I do admin it here.

[00:02:20] And then sometimes if it's a rainy day, like it is today, I might get a chance to catch up on some old commissions that are on panels and focus that to you behind me. But yet this is just where I answer my emails and do my concepts basically. So it doesn't need to be anything special.

[00:02:33] Grant Williams: Terrific. Well, what I'd like to do because we've got the Tobi here is if you don't mind Brenton, we'll just do a bit of a, an introduction into some of Sally's work and Sally's interests.

[00:02:46] And then I'll come back to your. Sort of the work that I've seen of yours that I want to feature. And then we'll talk about what you do and then how it can influence conservation, which is really the angle on a [00:03:00] title. I

[00:03:00] Brenton See: mean, I'm keen to hear about Sally's work as well. I haven't heard a lot about it, so that's why I thought it'd be great to get Sally on so I can let it get as well.

[00:03:07] So.

[00:03:08] Grant Williams: Okay. Well, Shelly, Sally sent me some images. So for those of you who don't know about Sally, let's sort of get to know a little bit about Sally, who she who's your friend there in that picture. That's

[00:03:23] Sally Edmonds: fluff bum he's he lives at mountain in the Perth Hills. He's a a rescue.

[00:03:29] That cookie that can't be released because he's just not able to be out in the world anymore. So he lives at Cara kin and they let me go and visit helping them out a little bit with print sales and food donations. So they let me go and hang out in my happy place, which you can see how happy I am.

[00:03:47] They said lovely. And he's very romantic. But the first time we met, he actually flew at me and bounced off my head. Like I think he liked my camera, but this last time I went to see him. He was very romantic with me. As you can say,

[00:03:59] Grant Williams: you [00:04:00] said,

[00:04:00] Sally Edmonds: Randy, I don't need to say anymore about Randy. It's very dominant. In the age, that's the interactive aviary at Karrikins. So there's a lot of birds in their behavior, very tall, very high. And he's the boss I think, in there. And he put the, puts his mark on you, as soon as you go in. Maybe it's just me.

[00:04:19] I dunno. But yeah, not really.

[00:04:20] Grant Williams: All right. Well, we'll talk about your interest in character and a little bit more, but I just want people to be able to have a look at the style of art that you do. And here's two of the shots that you've sent me, obviously, galoshes, and that's a. . Yeah. And and then something which are really lucky, is that the way you do these portraits, these intimate portraits, and there's obviously an Amy and what tile black cockatoo, or what of bees?

[00:04:51] I think is that what

[00:04:52] Sally Edmonds: that was Kenya, which is in Lesmurdie they do a SIM not exactly the same as Kara can, but it's definitely a rescue [00:05:00] center and he's a year old boy, a very lovely it's actually as a portrayed him as what he's like very funny and so smart. I look for when I'm looking for reference, this is what I'm looking for.

[00:05:11] So I took the photo of cap. I didn't take one of the EMU buyers search for that image for about a year to get exactly the right one, because I want that, that feeling you get from those pictures, the portraits being intimate and. Connecting to it.

[00:05:26] Grant Williams: Okay. So we'll do a bit of an introduction of Brenton's work.

[00:05:30] And then we will, we'll have to talk about the collision of photography and art as well. But I'm just going to run this a compilation video that I put together. Brandon, that it's quite quick for those clips, but if you could perhaps just tell us where each one is and then I'll run it again, if we need to talk about the subject matter, but I think they're all, it's all pretty self-explanatory about what it is [00:06:00] online and a writer as well.

[00:06:01] Yeah.

[00:06:02] Brenton See: So this is like Claremont. So this has been an area that has had a lot of new growth added by a lot of these. People volunteering here to the friends of lake Claremont. This is her suit. I did this for the west of grandparent breeding program that they've got there, which a lot of people don't know is going on.

[00:06:21] It's kind of behind the scenes and kept a little bit secret because the minutes Navy kept aside, and this is the watching Taneda on some parrot Bush. This is inside of someone's property Fremantle. So this is out in the backyard. Just a tiny little backyard. They didn't have much to look at. So this is a barn, our name chips.

[00:06:43] So this was the the barn owl that was the mascot for native animal rescue in Mulago. Unfortunately it passed away. So I did a portrait of chips for them. And this is a funny tailed gecko that I [00:07:00] painted at. What's it called? It's a, it's an environmental center in Rockingham. That is a voting frog from memory and that is painted on the side of the shopping center in at-will.

[00:07:12] So which I've been beautifying over the years I've gradually taken over. So this is a Western wall and Western spine built with some

[00:07:23] Grant Williams: grants granted

[00:07:24] Brenton See: that this is that land center in Mulago. And this is the bobtail with some silver that's from memory. Yep. Yeah, on the front of home.

[00:07:35] And then we got some great weeks, very Ren we, some blue, less naughtier and this was painted on a fuel. But I'm also kind of a tricky subject to work with, but but yeah, it kind of worked onto the three sides. It's just like kind of admire it from wherever you were positioned.

[00:07:52] Yeah. And these are played, placed all around the Southwest and a great king Fisher with some honorable [00:08:00] Myrtle. I think I did one of the metal eCard in the group was that, or jokes from blacks, but I think maybe it's one room and Myrtle and that wasn't the front of her residence. And this is a mixture of different flora and fauna found around the Albany region.

[00:08:14] And this is inside of the property downtown Albany. So this is the living room and now we've got a. Western yoke, Robin and a Dan and Jackie. Yeah. Some of these are, some of these were old. I'm just trying to remember, this is a recent one, other female and married that I've just done in Manning suburb, just out of Perth.

[00:08:36] And this is the front wall of their house. So their, the entrance to their houses, just on the right. So they see this as they come in into their home every day, quite fun to do. And they've also played plants, a lot of native species, and he's a male, that's a good photo of at a park Samson park, just around the corner from me.

[00:08:55] So I didn't have to travel far for this one, but he posts nicely for me. Suppose it, you [00:09:00] don't really see very often is a pair of Carnaby's feeding on some Norfolk pine. I like this photo because it really shows the closest between cares and away see, which is nice to catch up. And I'll just put this up last night on Twitter, just for something different, but this is a really, and fire tale that I photographed in it was Denmark or the Denmark or lb.

[00:09:24] I was going between the two. So yeah.

[00:09:26] Grant Williams: Hi there, we there we go. I wanted to put the the photograph scene at the end. Is that someone at your place doing that?

[00:09:36] Yeah. Yeah. So there we go. So I want to get away from all of those and back to us, there we are. So I wanted to put the photos at the end there because without having spoken to both of you. About how you do your creating, obviously photography is how you how you get your inspiration or perhaps [00:10:00] a bit of a template for for the images that you have to then get from your eyes, India head and then out onto the media.

[00:10:09] Is that how the process goes? Or have you got an idea first, then you go looking for a subject to photograph so that you can then get all the details, right. Sally, do you want to start with that?

[00:10:21] Sally Edmonds: It can be that quite often I've got an idea in my head for a really long time and I have to look for the reference material for it.

[00:10:29] Other times I'll just be trolling through or I'll go and take a load of photographs and one will stand out to me. And then I'll just use that at that she, funnily, I was having this discussion. I had to do a talk the other day. Because I have, I don't hide the fact that I use photographs for my work, because a lot of bird artist, particularly don't admit to using photographs cause they is kind of frowned upon and I was pulled up about it by someone and that they didn't agree with me using photographs.

[00:10:55] But I actually think that certainly obviously for the detail, it's [00:11:00] really important, but also photography can, if you things that your naked eye can't anyway, like a lot of the time I'm seeing, I've learned to really train my eye, to see color in a certain way, you probably have to Brenton. And you'll get things from photographs that you wouldn't see with your eye, like on the curb of a beach, you might see sometimes you'll get an edge of Magento or a bright turquoise color just now you just wouldn't see it.

[00:11:26] So I love using photographs. I honestly couldn't really do what I do without them, but I use Photoshop a lot. So for example, I had a picture in my head for a long time of a big flock of gloss flying anguish. I want to have a feeling of depths. So I went, I found photographs. Someone actually let me use their photographs.

[00:11:44] And I put it all into layers. Each child was a separate layer and the further back they were, the more blurry they were. And I built up the image in Photoshop first because I knew what I wanted it, that it's. I funnily enough, I can't really [00:12:00] visualize it so much. I've got a vague idea in my head, but I need to actually see it.

[00:12:04] And so I built a picture in Photoshop first, then I translated it to actually, that was a big painting. So yeah. Photographs are absolutely vital to what I do. So to me yeah. I always wonder when people say they don't use photographs, I think, well, what are you doing then chasing them around or

[00:12:19] working from stuff. But

[00:12:21] yeah

[00:12:21] Brenton See: I used to take three much all of my photographs. And then when my daughter came along a little bit of my, I guess, photography time went into order time. So nowadays if I finish early and I have a few hours to spare, then I might go out with my. It's kind of just finding the time now.

[00:12:42] If we've got to stay in line in, but any bird photographer knows that you might spend four hours looking for something, and then you're not just going to leave after four hours, you're going to spend as long as you can with that state photos. So for me to tell my wife, I'm just going to go out for a couple of hours to take some photos.

[00:12:58] I might spend two hours [00:13:00] just walking through the Bush and not saying anything. So I've got to be quite choosy but yeah, when I did have a full day free, I would go out and target certain species that I wanted to paint. So if I had a client contact me about something that they wanted painted, then I would take that opportunity to go find it.

[00:13:16] So I did the research into where it lives and then the closest place to Perth that I could see it. And then I would go off and try and find it.

[00:13:23] Grant Williams: You both have a style that is. What realistic all I would say but you're not trying to represent that. This is how it really is. I mean, there's obviously distortions and exaggerations and emphases that you have. Across and Brendan, you are very detailed with how you approach the vegetation and as well as the birds and the animals you reasonably botanically, correct.

[00:13:55] Which is a bit of a fate. So how much time do you [00:14:00] spend getting to know the vegetation and the animals and the bird species their habits that the kind of habitat that they existing before you try and commit them to a wall or to w is it motion idle canvas when you're doing smaller commissions?

[00:14:22] What materials are you using as

[00:14:23] Brenton See: well? Yeah, so, so wall surfaces can be absolutely anything. And that's where the, I think that's where my style comes into it quite a bit. So I, a lot of the time I have to pull back on a lot of the detail depending on the surface. So I've worked on corrugated services.

[00:14:40] I've worked on rough brick services. And if I was to treat that like a gallery artwork, I would be there for weeks and weeks. But I have to treat a mural as in an artwork that you see, like for instance from here. So if I was to stand here and needs to look good from here that's how you treat a mural.

[00:14:59] Generally. You're not going [00:15:00] to stand a meter away from it to take in what you're seeing. You want to stand back and take the whole image as a whole. So that's what you have to do with murals. You have to stand back and say, yeah, that looks right. Or I need to add a little bit there or moves, move something around there.

[00:15:14] So yeah, for me it's capturing the shape first of something, because at the end of the day, if as a photographer or bird watcher it's the shape of something that catches your eye first and the cover. So if you can get the color and shape, right. You're on the track to getting to getting the likeness there.

[00:15:33] So these are a few photos, obviously I haven't taken these, this is Ross McKibben's photo of the retail dragon there. So yeah, so I, I do approach a lot of photographers. Generally through flicker, I find flicker has the best photos on the. And now we'll approach the photographer and asked for permission if I can use that image to paint from and majority of the time they will say yes, so that's great.

[00:15:58] And then I make sure that I [00:16:00] credit the photographer in any posts that I do, because at the end of the day, their photography is their art. The image that they put up on the internet is the image at its best. So they've done a lot of editing that put a lot of time in the field. They perfected their craft.

[00:16:16] And I think as someone that has is quite uncommon, a very amateur photographer, but as someone that has taken photos, I know how much time goes into it. So I definitely don't take the photography.

[00:16:27] Grant Williams: Oh, and I mean, that's something that I think people like I'm doing what I'm doing need to be perhaps a little bit more aware of, and really try to let people understand and exploit the commercial value of these images. They're not just pretty things. There's a purpose behind making them. And we'll talk about, we'll talk about that when it comes to sort of your art in, in, in a minute, but it's a significant investment to [00:17:00] create those things.

[00:17:01] And I just want to draw attention for people here, this this tank think, I think, can you say. Doing its thing there, celly or not, you probably can't, it's really not being broadcast, but in the upper center, right. You can see the basket of the the CRA the scissor lift or the yes.

[00:17:24] So I mean, this is how it's done. Yeah. It's a very significant investment to get. I mean, you've got to hire the equipment. You've got to be insured. You've got to have someone else there being, you look out your safety buddy. And probably working with a reference drawing. I would imagine that it's grit, gritted out printing.

[00:17:43] We might talk about

[00:17:44] Brenton See: that. Yeah. So I don't, I generally don't grid any flora. I try and be a little bit free with the flora. So a lot of the times. I'm working from a bunch of photos to create the flooring and the images that I'm choosing one flower out of one photo and then another [00:18:00] stem out of another photo and kind of merging them in to frame, I guess, my artwork in a way.

[00:18:05] So if I was to paint directly off a photograph of a bunch of flora and just stick it onto a mural, it's not going to work. So I've got to make sure that it's framing the subject matter the right way, and it's working. Right. But also looks like it's something that could be coming out of the ground at the same time.

[00:18:23] So yeah. So the, at that scale on the tank, I did grip the floor on there just so that it was easy to work with the proportions because when I'm up there, It takes a long time to get back onto the ground and have a look at what I'm doing. So working with a grid takes away that, that time the generally if I'm working ground level, I don't need to use a grid for flora.

[00:18:43] Yeah, I doubt there's going to be too many people that could correct me. When I leave is two millimeters longer than it should be different for birds that someone will call you up on something wrong.

[00:18:53] Grant Williams: Well, I wouldn't talk too much about how that, how the sausage is sizzled or how the sources made [00:19:00] today.

[00:19:00] That's a whole nother episode, but I'd promoted the whole idea about your art. And now we've introduced the kind of art that you both do and. And how it can influence conservation and Brenton. You do a lot of stuff, which is in public places as well as doing private commissions with those homes and fences and courtyards and building interiors and whatnot.

[00:19:27] But they're still being seen by the public. Some of you commissions with the the zoo and whatnot with conservation related causes. And I don't really want to talk about that because they're already in the know and in the circle, but I'm interested for both of you. Do you think that when people like and appreciate your art when they first see it, that it then has has the effect of causing them to go and learn more about.

[00:19:58] Wildlife or [00:20:00] vegetation habitat in general. Oh, Sally, with the rescue centers that you're really interested in do you find that people will then become converts to the cause perhaps celly, if you can go first. Okay.

[00:20:16] Sally Edmonds: Yes, certainly. I mean, with what I do, I try to sort of, the ethos of my work is to get across that birds are just birds.

[00:20:24] It's lots of people don't really see birds the way I do. I live with eight birds. So know that they're all very different characters and the same goes for the boats out in the wild. They're all their will have their own personalities and relationships and lifelong companionship with a mate and things like that.

[00:20:41] And so I try to get across most of the time in my work that there is a character behind that bird. It's not just a pretty bad. And I think people really liked that. I use a lot of eye contact in my work. So the birds actually looking at you while you're looking at the bird and people sort of connect with it, they say, I feel like I [00:21:00] really feel the character from that bird.

[00:21:01] So that's peaks their interests. They might not be interested in a boat, a tool. And I think that if people are interested in a piece of art, they might not be into birds or wildlife or anything, but then that leads them to maps. Perhaps look at what you do, go into your Instagram or your Facebook.

[00:21:19] And that's where I can then. I mean, I can't, I don't do much. I donate some money and I promote if I can on my stuff, but everything you do help. So I'll go on mine surround, and I'll go to Kara kin or I'll promote Kara kennel, narrow or canyon. And just say you can go, you can come and do this.

[00:21:37] There's a picture of me with slough bum. You can do that. You just can go down to Cara kin on one of their tools. You two can go and have a lovely black cockatoo on your shoulder and interact with them. And that certainly has been interesting to a lot of people. I think people listen to their friends.

[00:21:53] And I have a really good relationship with a lot of my followers. And I think people listen to their [00:22:00] friends more than they listen to being told what to do. So if you're saying, oh, this is really cool, you could do this. They're like, oh yeah. And then they want to go and try it. And then someone they talk to, you might wash out and it's all these little things all add up to raising awareness.

[00:22:15] And even if it's only helping the rescue centers, it's a start, but then people start thinking, well, what else could I do? I could I plant stuff in my garden or, and I had one of these nesting boxes or donate money. So it all helps. I think that what we can do is, so it might be huge. It's that makes a difference, which is all bird.

[00:22:34] So.

[00:22:34] Grant Williams: Brinton before we come to you, I want to follow up with something celly said there. When you said, Sally, you follow us. She referenced, you follow us. Now you're using Instagram and Brenton's on Instagram and Twitter. I'm wondering whether over time and as your work gets better known and social media helps that occur, that you aware of any of your followers [00:23:00] that sort of becoming real warriors for the cause like that they get, they moved from being sort of appreciators of your work and then they become.

[00:23:11] Birdwatchers or that they become volunteers at the rescue centers or that they develop a deep interest in a certain habitat type. And they join a friends group. I mean I'm wondering whether you are aware of people shifting their attitude after being involved in your art.

[00:23:33] Sally Edmonds: I don't know if it's after being wrote in R or if they were already that way anywhere.

[00:23:37] And that's why they interested in life bird art sale. Not can't really answer that one. I'd like to think. So that would be nice. I certainly have directed people that way. They go that way. It's up to them,

[00:23:47] Grant Williams: do you see. See substantial growth year on year. And your social media following, like in the, in, in the Celi tribe.

[00:23:55] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:57] Sally Edmonds: It's weird actually. I was really struggling with [00:24:00] high. School's fine. Would they fully you in Facebook? And then they tend to stick around. But Instagram was a real slow to get it up to. I got to 10,000, but since I hit 10,000, it's just taken off and I think I've gained another 300 in the last couple of weeks and you're like, what's going on?

[00:24:17] But I do interact a lot with my foot with people. If anybody ever comments I've only ever had one troll. And that was, I think it was more about them than me, but yeah. I always reply, always respond. And I love that actually, because it's such a solid Terry pursuit being an artist. Although I'm never alone with eight birds and two dogs.

[00:24:35] And it's lovely having that interaction with people. I really enjoy it. And so I spend a lot of time on it and I know a lot of them they use these funny names for their Instagram names and I tend to know a lot of them are their real names, so I've, and I remember, so I will reply to them and I'd really appreciate everybody that follows is it's.

[00:24:55] It's amazing. Really? It's a fabulous resource.

[00:24:58] Grant Williams: Brandon, can we [00:25:00] take that up? That social media topic up ha. How have you been, how long have you been actually doing the Twitter and the Instagram? That's the first question.

[00:25:13] Brenton See: The Twitter is very new. The Twitter is and you would probably know this because you, you probably would've commented or shared one of my first posts.

[00:25:21] Twitter is super new and that's only because I found out recently by another artist that she was using it and getting a lot of help from it. So

[00:25:30] Grant Williams: yeah. Twitter is a great community. Yeah, really good.

[00:25:34] Brenton See: But I also, the thing I like about Twitter is I can follow people that are in the field doing work and that, the stuff that I find interesting, because then I can learn about new species that are needing help that I would otherwise know about.

[00:25:48] And just following their journey, because I jealous, I want to be out in the Bush doing what they're doing. So I feel like I can kind of follow what they're, where they're up to. And I almost feel like I'm not there with them. So that's what [00:26:00] I like about Twitter. And it takes a lot of the things, a lot of the crap out that you don't want to say Instagram and Facebook whether you like it or not, you're exposed to stuff that you're really not into it.

[00:26:09] So it doesn't matter if you're following along, you see so much like, and some of those things can get you down. So now I just want to be around positive stuff that a lot looking at. So at the end of the day, I don't want to be on social media. I wish I couldn't be on social media. So do this for a living.

[00:26:24] Grant Williams: I'm a bit like yourself in that. I love the positive stuff. I basically don't do Facebook. I go Facebook away. I mean, I post all the burden of agency stuff to Facebook and maybe once every two months I'll go and have a look if I've got any comments or anything, but I interact on Twitter all the time.

[00:26:45] And I'm trying to do Instagram, but it's a matter of time for me. But Twitter is where I hook up with bird people. I get slapped around the around the chops if I make a mistake, which I [00:27:00] do cause I produce so much content because. Mean now it's easy to do. And I'm one of those believers city.

[00:27:07] If I can talk to someone every day about birds and about conservation and put it out there eventually Google and the algorithms will find it. So throw another podcast yet. Is it perfect? No. Is my Twitter feed? Perfect. No is, but I think it's better. Oh look actually. Oh, write something with you, Brendan.

[00:27:28] You said you might have come in about the Western grandparent and about how they're a bit secretive and all that. And they are, I can't get an interview with them. I can't get an interview with Taronga zoo or Melbourne zoo about captive breeding programs and all that. And I think that's mad. I think that's absolutely mad.

[00:27:49] Yeah. It's public money. This split. Right. Yep. No one, no, one's expecting it to be perfect. If they make some mistakes, well, there's no handbook on, on how [00:28:00] to save something. I am my Western grandparents, a really interesting example that it's so localized. Now that one disaster could wipe them out and having captive populations is a sensible idea.

[00:28:15] But if you can't find more than one place to put them back, then they just become a bloody cage bird. Don't they that's my view. And I used to be a caged bird enthusiast when I was a kid. So I'm not down on, I'm not down on that, but I don't think anyone knows how much any of those projects are caught.

[00:28:35] Programs at costing and my this isn't a criticism. It's a, it's just a thought, Hey, if we could have, if for the same money, we could have five biologists working full-time in the field, learning more or buying land that we could then let regenerate over 50 years or something to, to perhaps maybe these [00:29:00] things aren't possible.

[00:29:00] Maybe they are, but I don't think there's enough, nine, but building a building, securing the land, building a building, building a re resource center for for basically what we're doing now, talking to people, spreading the word. Yeah, is it is something that, that deserves to be questioned and mine.

[00:29:20] And my thought is that it's something that's easy to do. The rest of it is hard to do. And it seems to be an easy out like so th that's really getting to the point of what I wanted to talk to you guys about Brendan, if you if you. Painting the Western grandparent on a facility about the Western grand parrot.

[00:29:41] Is that more effective than if you were to do it on an overpass of a freeway or on the on a wall at the entrance to a busy, super shopping center? Where do you reckon art is more effective in communicating conservation [00:30:00] needs and the and the plight of an endangered bird animal or plant or vegetation community, sorry to interrupt you.

[00:30:09] Brenton See: Right. So, so for me the way that I've gone about my work for about four or five years now is I will paint the species found within 15 kilometers of the location that I'm painting. So for the Western grandparent, that's where they were doing the breeding program. And a lot of people wouldn't know.

[00:30:25] But if they were to go, I added a little bit of info to the right hand side of that Europe that people could look up. And it also has the link to the friends of the Western ground parrot website. So they can go on there and they can find some information out and that, and then if they went on that website, they would also see that the pet Zoe's doing the breeding program.

[00:30:45] So in a way it's kind of saying how many people are going forward to, to read the information. Cause that's what I always find interesting because I'm always at the middle ground, whether I put information originally on a mural and then risk of [00:31:00] changing the way of the mural looks by adding all that text to it or leaving it out and then putting all that information on my social media.

[00:31:06] So as far as letting people know where the, these animals have found from the murals, I try to include that on my social media. And that has worked in a few instances. If I painted mural winners in a suburb of a bird that follower hasn't seen before, I've had people ask what reserve can I see that bird?

[00:31:27] He said that in itself is showing people's interest from the mural to go and see something they haven't seen before. And I think knowing that they can see things that they haven't seen before. So close to them is quite an excitable thing. I find it exciting knowing that there's so many species yet to see in the wild that are still so close to home, it's almost collecting trading cards or something like it's the excitement of not knowing what you're going to find.

[00:31:53] But so yeah I'm trying to raise awareness of what we have basically in our back pocket, because [00:32:00] you think we don't even know what we have down the road. Obviously they're not going to know about the Western ground era. And I think the way. The way that the world works is if it's not animal, that's going to bring tourism in.

[00:32:12] It's just going to get kicked to the side. It's not important if it's not going to bring in tourism money. It's just not important and it will just go to the Western. Then there may be a day that the Western grandparent isn't here anymore, but you know, when it comes to getting media coverage, I hear a lot about the nightmare, but I don't hear too much about the west of ground parrot.

[00:32:31] And as far as numbers go, I would imagine that.

[00:32:34] Grant Williams: Wait, can I contend something about that though, because I'm a bit older than the new brands. And then and when I was a kid, a bird nerd, the night parrot was, does it still exist? Yeah, we wait, we'd given up on the paradise parrot.

[00:32:51] Right. But does the night parrot still exist? So that was the big mystery. And then w when I become in my [00:33:00] forties, there's a fellow who says he's found it and nobody believes him because he pulled a con once before. Yeah. And then and so everyone goes, oh, well, it's probably gone.

[00:33:13] And then somebody. Yeah, there's photos and that's from the guy who's supposed to not know, and it hurt to not be believed. And it's all true. And then a whole bunch of people are secure research money, and my guy looking and good on him, James and Nick and Neil and everyone who's been out doing that work.

[00:33:34] That's good. But that's why you're hearing about it because it was a bloody controversy. If there wasn't a controversy. If I spoke to Neil Hamilton, I was fine well differently, but I spoke to Neil Hamilton and we've got he's, his podcast will be coming out sort of soon, but he's been talking to the traditional owners in that, in parts of the night parrot range.

[00:33:58] They knew it was [00:34:00] there. Nobody would, but nobody who'd published a paper. Had talked to them about it so it was all just anecdotal and whatnot, but Hey, without the controversy I mean, bristle bristlebird hello, scrubber, scrub bird. Hello, not sexy now equally as under threat as the Western grandparents

[00:34:21] Brenton See: recently though, which is great.

[00:34:23] Grant Williams: Well good. But that, that really highlights the whole point. That little brown birds equally threatened equally as important in the same locations. Wait, where's the interactive information center for the brown bird.

[00:34:39] Brenton See: Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's all about if I could find a way to make a lot of these little brown birds look amazing on a mural, I would.

[00:34:49] And that's the unfortunate thing I kind of dictated by what the client wants in a way that the same time I can use a little bit of my knowledge in swaying them. So if someone's wanting a rainbow, [00:35:00] Laura, Kate, I can push them to a red cap parrot. I can say, have you seen this before? This bird comes around, somebody's location that you're in.

[00:35:07] Why not go for this? This is an old planner, but it's not it's, it is a native it's meant to be here. So why am I paying this? So, but a lot of the little brown birds I can't help, but think, you know that at the end of the day, they're not attractive enough to.

[00:35:21] Grant Williams: Well, it's one of the reasons I wanted to really talk to you about this stuff.

[00:35:28] Brenton was that people are seeking you out to make statements, right? There's a lot of your commissions and this isn't a criticism of the people who are who are engaging you, but it's there, there's a real look at may factor, right? If it's can be seen from the street, it's like, oh wow, look at this.

[00:35:48] It's not a new push, but it's something that people will that people can see and we'll notice and we'll talk about and whatnot. So, so what on [00:36:00] what I'm interested in, because I think we just take it as given that your stuff is noticed and it. It gets people talking in the neighborhood, but it doesn't move the needle for the individuals.

[00:36:15] Do they actually then go from thinking it's nice and pretty, and this is the whole Gouldian Finch versus little brown bird kind of issue. Do they then get involved in conservation or support other things? This is where the question really is does that move the needle for me?

[00:36:34] Brenton See: It's about making that individual feels special about what they've got on their wall. So I have to leave them with a little bit of education about what they've had paint on the wall. So if they came into it hiring me just because they wanted a pretty picture, I've got to make sure that they leave with a little bit of knowledge.

[00:36:50] So there are black cockatoo species are always going to be the birds that people want because they love them. But funny enough, a lot of them don't realize the [00:37:00] status that they're in. A lot of them because of all the things happening outside of around the Southwest area these birds are moving into residential gardens and things, and people just think, oh, we're lucky, but they don't realize why they're here.

[00:37:14] So for me, if I'm going to paint one on someone's wall and they say, it's my favorite bird that flies over my house every day, then it's up to me to say why it's flying over their house every day. So it's all the logging that's happening. They're getting kicked out of their natural habitat, so, so for me it's a kind of a combo deal. It's, you're getting the mural, but you need to share a little bit with them. Otherwise for me, it's like, what's the point? Like for me, I mean, I love doing what I do, but it needs to serve a purpose. And that's why like, with Sally like following Sally's work and her donations, it's it started getting me thinking.

[00:37:51] I do get a lot of the comments in public forums saying it's a shame that these murals are going to be the last thing remaining of the species. And that's the opposite of what I want. [00:38:00] So these birds, it's not right for me, it's not right. So I needed to give it back. So, which is what I'm going to start

[00:38:05] Grant Williams: doing.

[00:38:06] Yeah. Well, there's some, all sorts of ideas about that, Brandon, which we can explore in another time. And and I really do want to get you back when we've got some time to talk about the nuts and bolts about how you do the work. Cause I know a lot of people have said to me, how do I do it?

[00:38:23] And I put up I'll do Paul's or tweets, and I put out Paul's of. Information about birds and work really hard doing it. I took a photo when I was on my way to a meeting. So I just went past soar. So this mural on not on the front wall, a dam, just down a little alleyway, took a fight.

[00:38:44] I just whacked it up because I'm on Twitter. I'm walking down the street. I'm always on Twitter, flung it up there. My most interacted with tweet in 10 years and something like 24,000 tweets or [00:39:00] something. And it's a picture of Willie. Wagtail a magpie, something else I write. I'm pretty sure Ryan by Laura Kate was on it.

[00:39:09] Give them a plug Melbourne murals did it. A hundred podcasts talking to experts. So going to conservationists, I'm lucky to break through for 300 things in two years and is hundreds and hundreds of people wanted a ratio and like, and whatnot, something which is inanimate birds, which kind of it's really frustrating.

[00:39:34] I don't know whether think it frustrates me

[00:39:36] Brenton See: fresh obviously does. I don't know if you saw it, but the recent gardening Australia segment that came out I wanted them not to, I didn't want them to put the silos in because I didn't want them, I didn't want that program to be labeled as the silo is, which is what happened or features, or sorry, all the comments where they just say that the segment on the silo artists like I didn't want that like, it's great that I did this.

[00:39:58] And then what, and what it [00:40:00] raised awareness for was the main part of that siloed. So that I painted the red towel fast to go on that silo. And the reason why they didn't extend the land to the left of that CVC H building was because of them that were breeding in there. So I wanted that to be a big part of the silo and let people know, like, that's how I connected.

[00:40:19] I want my work to be like, literally they weren't allowed to build right here because this animal was right there. So but I understand that they wanted to use the wealth factor like when it comes to this kind of work, when our factor gets coverage and even murals, that's a wow factor.

[00:40:36] And like you were saying about the tweet, if it's bigger, if it's bigger than if it's bigger than an a four sheet of paper, it's going to get a bit of wow factor if it's bigger than yet. Basically if it's bigger than real life, that's what it, that's what it comes. And if it's colorful as well, it's it draws your eye.

[00:40:51] With social media if you're posting a text tweet or something, it's obviously it's not going to get seen over a photo. So like [00:41:00] for people to be spreading any information that's necessary to be read, you almost have to attach a photo with it because it's people scrolling through.

[00:41:08] They're not going to

[00:41:08] Grant Williams: stop. Sure. That's right. Unless it's politics, snack and you're in a hashtag that people are there for it. But yeah, you're quite right if you're just, I mean, you'll need a Twitter Brendan, but I've been on it for so many years and I've got a couple of like personal,

[00:41:25] but I used to get people years ago when it was just on a personal thing, I'd put things like, I just had an amazing coffee best coffee I've had for three weeks. Loads of engagement because it was new and it was cool and it was fun and whatnot. And now it's just full of payout draws and promoted tweets and all that kind of stuff.

[00:41:47] But Sally, I want to ask you what how do, what your passion is, the rescue centers and wildlife rehabilitation [00:42:00] and relationship possible and whatnot. How do you feel when someone with Brenton's profile now? Is it. Getting so much attention. And we're not saying that's a bad thing, so Hey ease off everyone.

[00:42:18] But that something will actually, oh, frame in a different way. I

[00:42:23] Brenton See: what's Sally and I do in the same sort of thing. I think

[00:42:25] Grant Williams: in a way it's no, you're not in the same playpen but what I'm interested in is that how can some art get to get impact and some doesn't and what do you need to do or what could be done in an art center?

[00:42:46] Height using the word product and whatnot, but it's to, to increase the awareness and perhaps the financial health of something like a wildlife rehabilitation [00:43:00] shelter or a yeah, there that's really a really good example. There's one here not far from my place that struggles to get money, to feed the the animals.

[00:43:11] But then Dr. Harry visits. And you couple of an hour in primetime TV really moved moved the natal. Yeah.

[00:43:20] Sally Edmonds: That'd be nice if we went to Kara keen or Kenyatta, that'd be good. Maybe that night.

[00:43:24] Grant Williams: Well then sort what I wanted to ask you and perhaps trying to lead the discussion in a slightly different place.

[00:43:31] What's the best way for your art Sally to help? Like, you've got to sell stuff for yourself to eat to pay the mortgage and everything, but yeah. What kind of ways let's put it a different way. Let's take it away from Jeff's theme, the centers that you're really invested in personally.

[00:43:55] What kind of way do you think an artist who is doing work like [00:44:00] yourself can have an impact on conservation and public awareness?

[00:44:07] Sally Edmonds: I think personally I'm not going to force any sea change. I'm not going to be a big cog in this whole thing. Sometimes I've talked about this a lot and I sometimes feel a little bit helpless in the face of your destruction of habitat and things like that.

[00:44:22] See, I'm a Brit. So for me, as I've said to you coming here, I'm absolutely astonished by everything here is so dramatic. The birds, the plants, the land is just wonderful to me. And I'm astonished. We don't preserve it enough or as much as maybe it would be nice if we did. I don't talk about things that I don't know about because I'm older and wiser, but I think that's my impression, but I do know that I might not be able to like a big difference.

[00:44:52] I can make a difference. I can do what I do. I'm only one person and I've just the bird artist. I happen to love [00:45:00] birds. And so for me, I did use to volunteer, but I just, this business took off so mad, especially the last couple of years. And I thought, well, how can I help then? And so for me, the way I've done it is to actually have a relationship with hurricane, particularly I'm just recently Kenya Ana, and I'm hoping as well to get something going with the Western seabird rescue as well, where I will actually either go in and photograph their residence.

[00:45:27] And draw those and then I'll sell prints through my website and any sales that go through my website, they get the profit, so it doesn't cost me anything. I can't afford to support it without covering my costs. I pay for my prints and this is not an tography I wear it, but obviously I'll keep the original.

[00:45:46] And they get the profits that way and it comes and it goes, it's kind of sometimes like locked down. It was ridiculous. Just sold so many there was one in particular of a pair of black cockatoos from kin. It just kept going out the door. It was [00:46:00] printed and that's what I can do. And the other thing is like, we've never through our social media, I'll say I love a bit of social media, me.

[00:46:06] I will just look them every time I can. And anytime I'd go there and people ask me questions there's my two main questions. Well, three main questions. How long did that take you? What pencils do you use? And where's this bird? Where can, where is this bird? Can I go and see them? And so I tell them all about it and I see, yep.

[00:46:26] You can go here. Any money you put in is going to help. And it's just a small thing. It's not, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna make a massive change, but I can make a change. And it's a community as well. I took about followers. It's a community. We all talk about these things and awareness is raised.

[00:46:42] And as I say, I do, you do sometimes feel a bit helpless, but at the same time, every little helps. It's like climate change. You might think to yourself, well, what's the point of me doing anything in China. Aren't going to stop belching out smoke and this, that, and the other, but everything you do in your life, it does make a difference.

[00:46:59] And it's the same [00:47:00] with this. So if you. So nice stuffing a garden. That's going to be nice for I need two birds or put water out in the garden or put a nesting box up, or there's so many things I'll donate to your local central volunteer at your local center. It does. It helps. And everybody's talking about it.

[00:47:16] That's the thing we need to be talking about it because it shows the wildlife health so special.

[00:47:22] Grant Williams: I can't let, I can't let the opportunity go when you've raised those three questions that you get asked all the time. Tell it. So tell us about the co the cookie there and those three questions. How long did it take,

[00:47:37] Sally Edmonds: but it depends how you look at it.

[00:47:39] You can say to him three weeks, so he could have taken, say it took me the last seven years of honing it and getting it right. I think I don't I don't rush. I would lady now, so I learned how to be patient and slow down. So I just put the podcast on or that the audio book, and I really take my time over it.

[00:47:56] And so that, that guy was probably about three weeks, but [00:48:00] yeah, it doesn't matter to me. I just, when you're at the beginning, there's not much to start with. There's just an outline room. You just have to chip away at it. This one here is nothing to the one I'm doing now. What I'm doing now is, oh, mammoth.

[00:48:12] It's just chipping away and pencils. I've got a list copied in my notes for every time anyone asks me what pencils.

[00:48:19] Grant Williams: Oh, perhaps she might share that with me. And I'll pop that on the on the webpage because people will be wanting to know what's, what are the materials involved in that

[00:48:30] Sally Edmonds: That guy I work on mat board, which using picture framing the little window you get inside the frame and you were always behind it, flip it over and bad side. And I do my sketch, which is very simple, no point putting any detail because it's going to get all covered up. And then I prime that with a primer, which is a nice rough surface, and then it's just blocks of color.

[00:48:52] So that guy was pretty much black all over apart from his beak and his little cheek patch. And then it's fixed and that's [00:49:00] using these big pastels, like not this, so the proper pastorals and then I fix it with a spray fixative and then the rest is done with pastoral pencils and colored pencils.

[00:49:11] But if you could see my pencils, they've just, they cover a whole day. I got hundreds and hundreds of them and yeah, and I just worked out from dark to light from blocks of color, right up to the fine detail. And that's about it really?

[00:49:25] Grant Williams: Yeah, because I had the picture app of the of the khaki and the Amy.

[00:49:31] Can you show us that pestle again so that people can actually see how big it is in relation to your head? There we are. Okay.

[00:49:39] Sally Edmonds: These are out sick. Extra soft square pastels that lovely. And they're really good for coverage, but also right at the end, when I've done all the other bits, I'll go back and I'll look at it and think, well, is there enough? Is there a really nice dark point in there? Is there any nice bright point in there is you don't want it all midtones and you can't [00:50:00] get a white pastel pencil.

[00:50:01] That's really white. So I'll use one of these, but in the white just to finish off. So on that black cookie, that would have been some of the ends of his little feathers and any really bright white highlights. Cause it's really important to have those really dark points. I'm really bright points in a picture.

[00:50:18] Otherwise it could be a little bit samey, so yeah. And that's that.

[00:50:22] Grant Williams: Yeah, very good. I just want to take a minute to acknowledge Naomi Bergeson on Facebook. He gave us a nice, like, so and that was a long Tommy guy but I didn't get the opportunity to pull up the discussion.

[00:50:37] Sally Edmonds: Ramona. Thank you, Ramona.

[00:50:39] So you have some nice.

[00:50:40] Grant Williams: Yeah. Where are we? Well, actually let some, let's talk about that reminder, send an art. So I'm guessing that Ramona is an artist. So reminders set as an Insta follower of by Sally and branch. And for years

[00:50:53] that the information and enthusiasm have made me learn much more about my local birds. Now that's [00:51:00] really what the whole point of starting the discussion is. And I appreciate that the comment reminder it's great, but To both of you and perhaps Brenton, this might be a little bit more in your wheelhouse, but I, you getting asked by organizations, perhaps companies or government affiliated bodies, United quangos, or NGOs and stuff to support them and do do stuff for them.

[00:51:30] And what I'm trying to tease out is most of your work is commissions from private organizations or individuals who are happy to pay you to do the artwork and see it as that kind of transaction. What I'm wondering about is if people and organizations that. Not profit makers or just private enjoyers of art appreciators connoisseurs, [00:52:00] where that whether with a profile comes people wanting you to to support what they're doing, their good cause or their purpose for being that essentially a people asking you to give them a discount.

[00:52:15] Brenton See: Yeah, it does come up it, so with my work I have to basically let people know how much a neuro is going to cost. And that there's a minimum and generally people want a lot for a little, so they want to get. They want to get a mural for my minimum costs generally. So it's up to me to make a vibrant mural for them, for the amount that they want to spend.

[00:52:45] Then there's the people that's that come along and say, I've got this budget, which is generally, if it's, sometimes it's a nice budget and they say, love what you do. We respect how you do it. And the research you put into it, [00:53:00] we want you to have fun on this wall, and this is our budget.

[00:53:03] So that shows me that people are involved in what I'm doing and also possibly the story that comes along with it. So it I do have people that will sit with me while I'm painting and that we would just have conversations all day and those conversations. We'll go into conservation and go into talking about species that live in the area and stuff.

[00:53:28] And so it's those kinds of conversations that become part of the mural. And those are the clients that I love to work with because I want to be adding to the people that are invested in what I'm doing when I'm doing work for commercial businesses and local sides of apartment buildings and things like that.

[00:53:45] I have to go into it realizing that they're just beautifying the side of a duty and that's all it is to them. So for me, it's quite important to get some interpretive signage set up as part of that mural. So that [00:54:00] interpretive signage will have the species names and possibly the locations close to that building, where people would see them.

[00:54:06] So that at least it's not just a pretty picture. It is something that people can get a bit of knowledge from. So even if they're walking past that building, going to the shops one day to grab some. They might come past and say, Hey, what's that sign? There have a bit of a raid. And then the name of the park that's around the corner might stick with them and they might say, oh, I'm going to grab my kids one day.

[00:54:27] And Sunday afternoon, we might go down to that park and have a look. I didn't even know that park was there. So maybe if it, even if it's something as small as that smaller someone going out to a park, that's better than it not happening for me anyway. So the more that I can do from just a pretty picture that's my aim is to get the most out of just a pretty picture.

[00:54:46] So whether that be interpretive signage, whether that be sharing a bit of knowledge, whether that yeah it's got to the mural itself, has to give something.

[00:54:55] Grant Williams: Thanks Nicole Brown for a bit of Facebook love as well. Appreciate that.[00:55:00] Again, a reminder for those of you who are watching on all the platforms, Twitch, Facebook, and YouTube.

[00:55:07] Thanks. If there's something I'm not asking that you want to know in the comments, stick it in and I will put it up and we'll talk about it Brinton with your profile growing. And obviously you're basically just working in your local hood. You can become a bit of a big deal.

[00:55:28] Have you been approached to do work that you just weren't prepared to do for any reason?

[00:55:36] Brenton See: Yeah. I actually turned down a lot of work. So I probably turned down. Probably turned down, I would say one laughing kookaburra a month. Probably.

[00:55:45] Grant Williams: Can I just stop you there? Sorry. Brendan. Just want to stop you there because people who are not in Perth will go what's he got against cooker bearers. Why won't he paint rainbow Laura. Kate would the floor is yours? [00:56:00] My friend.

[00:56:00] Brenton See: Yes. Obviously there are those two species. They're not native to Western Australia.

[00:56:05] They're the laughing called the Barra was from my memory, brought to Western Australia into the purse and bred up to taking take to help out with this night issue was my knowledge and they were released To take care of I'm assuming while a while ago we had a lot of snake issues, so that's my knowledge.

[00:56:22] That's why they released. And they've basically taken over people love them, like I, I understand why people love them, but they do a lot of things to our 90

[00:56:31] Grant Williams: birds. So they are, they

[00:56:33] Brenton See: are, they are. Yeah. And you could probably say that the rainbow arcades are in the metal on the well, the rainbow lorikeets they take over a lot of other species nest.

[00:56:43] They're very aggressive. And if you were to go down to any of your local parks, I guarantee you will see nesting, or it means again you probably might see many other nesting birds in holidays. You'll see my

[00:56:53] Grant Williams: mower. Yeah, they they dominate and I don't think a lot of Australians on this [00:57:00] side of the continent aware of what a problem they are in Perth and in New Zealand as well with I had the established and I Tara, they're a bully and they dominate for nesting sites.

[00:57:16] If a pair can't get hold of a suitable place on their eyes the group will come down and mob competitors and whatnot. So they act, compete all the bigger birds for hollows and yeah. Th they're a bit of a drama out like, yeah. And

[00:57:34] Brenton See: I'll share this knowledge with a lot of the people wanting them in, in, in these email inquiries.

[00:57:40] And they'll say, that's all good, but I love that third. So I want you to paint it and just say, well, I'm not the artist for you. They're motivated to say no to that, to the job. Then they do the job. And

[00:57:51] Sally Edmonds: it's very NWA, all these stuff for people over recent I'm allowed to do kookaburra.

[00:57:55] Grant Williams: Yeah.

[00:57:56] Brenton See: Yeah. I also get approached. I also get approached to do things [00:58:00] outside the Western Australia, so, and I don't do that. So I'm only into promoting the species of the WLA inside of WOA. So unfortunately to know a few artists over the east coast. So if they, if I do get inquiries, I would generally give them to that.

[00:58:14] Grant Williams: Yup. You're fortunate. You're in the fortunate position that you can say no, but the other thing I was interested in Branton with the profile that comes from what, when you're on gardening Australia and and having your name on walls in public spaces, so that people start to chase you down.

[00:58:37] Do you get far more offers for commissions now than you could possibly do?

[00:58:43] Brenton See: I've just recently hired an admin assistant and that's changed a lot for me. So so up until then it was basically, I would answer emails, any chance, like. And that kind of means that a lot of the inquiries we just get forgotten about. That's not what I want. I want everyone to sort of [00:59:00] get, gets loaded into the calendar and have their time. So now I'm able with social media and all the other platforms, there's inquiries coming in from Sony in so many different places gardening Australia, and then those sorts of programs are amazing.

[00:59:13] But at the end of the day, if I, myself, couldn't be on the program, that would be where I want to I'd want to be. I want the artwork to be doing more than just me getting long while. So that's why I'm trying to give the art I dunno, give the automating and have it do more than just get shared around the internet.

[00:59:33] Hundreds of likes like that. That's great. But now if it's not doing anything for the wildlife that I'm hiding, then what's the point. Yeah.

[00:59:40] Sally Edmonds: Not just one person who looks at it and says, oh, what's that I'm going to look down. Yeah.

[00:59:45] Brenton See: Yeah. And that's great. But yeah I would love to say saving species that's at the end, that's the end goal.

[00:59:52] Grant Williams: And I want to follow up on that bit about doing something for the species and whatnot in a minute. But we w celly [01:00:00] told us about how long it took and what she used. I want to throw that kind of question at you. Brendan just let's look at the tanks because we get an idea of the scale of the, there we are.

[01:00:14] So And and of course the methodology involved in it. How long did that project take from you to getting the Crimson chat, photograph the the dragon obviously you've taken some photo photos of the of the plants you've come up with your concept. How long does it take to actually put it together?

[01:00:38] A

[01:00:38] Brenton See: lot of the photos of the flora I didn't take myself. I did take photos when I got up to Tom price. I found a lot of these species close to the location I was painting which meant that I was able to have different angles. So then I kind of switched from the the flora that I've found on the [01:01:00] internet to some of my own photos, which was quite handy.

[01:01:03] They actually, some of them looked a little bit different close. And that just may be that light that the photos were taken in but working under the Pillbra sunlight, the colors really showed. So that was really great, but there's a lot of time in the research phase. So I naturalist eBird for a base.

[01:01:21] These are a lot of the websites that I like to use to really pin down the location of species, but then also just contacting photographers. So Ross MacGibbon, who took the photo of the retail dragon there I just queried him on what I could find around Tom price and told him where I was painting.

[01:01:39] And he gave me all the knowledge I really needed. So you know, that there is time that goes into just talking to some of these people that have the knowledge I hadn't been there before. Why should I just Paul species out of my head, that don't make sense. So there was a lot of research and there's a lot of research that goes into too, a lot of the murals that I'm doing, because I don't want to get it home.

[01:01:59] [01:02:00] I want it to own it too, but you're right. So the murals themselves from memory, it was 20, 24 days. I think it was for both sides to complete both. So quite different to the way Sally works. And obviously I was talking about stripping the murals down and simplifying them if I didn't do that.

[01:02:22] And if I made them realistic, it just wouldn't be profitable for me. Because I would be losing money by spending that much time on a project and the budgets allowed for the projects. So I have to take a lot of things into consideration. As far as how long something's going to take, and I need to know how long it's going to take before I even put up a price for it.

[01:02:43] So that just comes with time spent on painting different subjects nowadays I'll know how long

[01:02:48] Grant Williams: what's the story behind those tanks at at Tom price who was a private commission or is that like at a at a public body?

[01:02:59] Brenton See: [01:03:00] Yeah, so the unfortunate thing with that specific neuro is it's not visible to the public it's inside of a Rio Tinto mine site. And that in itself ran alarm bells for me.

[01:03:10] Eden painting at a Rio Tinto site.

[01:03:13] Grant Williams: I do a lot of clearing, but let's hope that they don't blow up.

[01:03:17] Brenton See: Yes. Yes. Let's hope that, I mean, yeah, they do have a lot of land, which is not they've got a lot of land for that. I think that'd be safe if something does blow up, which is a shame it's such a tricky thing at the end of the day, some year-olds.

[01:03:30] So that, that mural itself was a gift to Rio Tinto as a celebration. I can't remember the exact celebration, but it was basically a gift to finalizing the projects. So that site was just about ready for handover. And this was the mural that was saying, thank you for everything. This is our gift to you.

[01:03:50] Hence why it's only seen inside of the mine site.

[01:03:52] Grant Williams: So can you clarify that? Who was giving it to one of the biggest companies in the world? Hello? You really [01:04:00] need a gift?

[01:04:00] Brenton See: Yeah. I, I wasn't told all the small details but it was one of the management groups that was working 3 0 2 to set up the site.

[01:04:10] Okay. Was their gifts to Rio Tinto. So at the end of the day, few of these projects, I have to understand that if I said no to that project, they would have approached someone else to do a mural, not a separate purpose.

[01:04:23] Grant Williams: And I guess there's the other side of it too. The murals going to get done. It may as if you can convey a positive worthwhile message out of it, it may as well buy your weight bigs for a few months as somebody else's, who isn't as committed to doing other things.

[01:04:43] Yeah. I mean, it, it supports you but it's a compromise you have to think about isn't it. You have to think about it and make the compromise to do it.

[01:04:53] Brenton See: Yeah. Yeah. And I am doing more and more projects, commercial projects where [01:05:00] unfortunately, there, there may be land clearing involved and it's up to me to say, yes, I'm going to do that project or no, I'm not.

[01:05:06] So I have to look into flora and fauna surveys and find out a lot about the land before I even say yes, I'm coming on board. So that's the, that's a lot of the research that I'm doing. I'm lucky that I can do things to having an admin assistant. I've got that extra spare time. But there is a store, a lot of projects that I will say no to based purely on the landscape, because it goes against everything that I'm in I'm about.

[01:05:32] Grant Williams: Yeah. I totally understand what you say there, but I'm always a contrarion with some of those things to Brendan, I would think sometimes it might be some benefit if there's as your profile grows, if you can do a project where there may be some land clearing involved, but then talk about it every way you possibly can saying these buses still cutting down its stuff or browsing this [01:06:00] stuff that.

[01:06:01] That in a way you can turn a negative into a positive, and if it's a corporate thing for them, it might turn what they think is a positive into a bloody big negative, so

[01:06:13] Brenton See: the day that I did that would mean that it would be the last job I get. I would just say,

[01:06:17] Grant Williams: well, well in that sector, perhaps.

[01:06:21] Yeah. Well,

[01:06:22] Brenton See: I definitely I've looked into any corporate job that I now do. I would love to find a group that does plantings. So I would love to, anytime I work on on a site that has some land clean and I'd like to if I could,

[01:06:40] Grant Williams: I can make it part of your contract. That

[01:06:43] Brenton See: Exactly.

[01:06:44] Put that back somewhere else. And just say, if you want my opinion. You are going to have to put this money into planting some trees, somewhere that on request. Otherwise you don't get me to do the painting.

[01:06:54] Grant Williams: Okay. Well, that leads me to where I wanted to come to at the end, talking [01:07:00] about new staff opportunities, raising money for co for conservation, Sally, raising money for for wildlife rescue rehabilitation interactive signage, all that kind of stuff, which gets tacked on, but sometimes doesn't get done well now we're using new technology.

[01:07:18] It's not that new, but 50 years ago we artists couldn't do what we're doing now and then stick it up somewhere. And for it to last for another, God knows how many years and how many people will see it. And if T's stuff like that, Tell HOV. Tell me what you think.

[01:07:39] Sally Edmonds: I don't understand.

[01:07:40] Brenton See: I'm trying to do less on the computer.

[01:07:42] Grant Williams: Okay. How about how about stuff like your images on merge that, that. Is there that the selling of the merge is only to direct money to, for instance, friends of the [01:08:00] Western grandparent or the and what got me interested in this is have you seen those Botanica ads on TV at the moment where they're saying, oh, we we're putting money towards saving 20 of Australia's most endangered wildflowers and whatnot, and I'm thinking.

[01:08:19] Alright, maybe you're putting 1 cent or something or 2 cents per whatever towards something, but they don't let unexplained where it does. They're not saying to to Kings park breeding program or a seed bank or anything like that. And all the, it's just like total greenwashing. And for me maybe the people of Botanica I've got the best intentions, but I don't know what your bloody well saving.

[01:08:48] So, and you're not explaining it and you're not putting a link to something on, so it's just an ad saying, we're good lovers buy our [01:09:00] shit, yeah. So I don't know. I get annoyed.

[01:09:02] Sally Edmonds: I think that it's better that they're saying something like that and then not saying it at all and not giving the talks about it, but maybe they are, but they're actually,

[01:09:10] Grant Williams: But here's my point though, Sally, is it, I mean, I have to get involved with their brand to, to save those 20 species.

[01:09:21] I don't know what the 20 species are, unless. Unless I go to their website and check out what they're doing, or I buy their product and read a box. So I would have been more impressive. They said last year we gave $50,000 to Kings park breeding program. Aren't we good corporate citizens. Right? If that was on the ad or something, I would think good on your Botanica, but not,

[01:09:49] Sally Edmonds: yeah, exactly.

[01:09:50] That, because you said this

[01:09:51] Grant Williams: well, well, we're talking about it, but I'm not being positive about it because most of these things generally are, remember the dolphin stuff on [01:10:00] Cina, and then if you chase it down, you find out it was like, 0.05 cents or something for every 2010 sold or something. So over a year, they've given a thousand dollars or $2,000 or something to something for a company of that size that's point.

[01:10:21] Oh aye. Aye, aye. Aye. Aye, aye. 1% of their global profit piss off that's my view I'd you don't need to be associated with that view. But to me that's like a billionaire giving five, $500,000 to something is less significant than someone who's unemployed given 50 bucks. Right.

[01:10:43] And it's just, but we are loading stuff that is easy to do. But as Brinton, you said before, We're still four, we're still cutting down habitat that we can't replace. We can't replace it in a hundred [01:11:00] years. Even if we set land aside and raise funds and all that, we just got to stop doing the bad stuff and then attaching goodness to sick and right solutions.

[01:11:11] That's my view. Right? Who wants to read out in Nicole's lovely comment?

[01:11:15] Sally Edmonds: Oh, there's a nice comment. I'll read it. Love Brenton's comment. The hope for art saving species and Sally's inherent statement about not necessarily making a big change, but making eighteens. Thank you all. Thank you, Nicole.

[01:11:28] Grant Williams: Yeah.

[01:11:28] Thanks. So thanks for being positive and cause I'm always going to be a Grizzle guts or that this kind of stuff. Cause I just get annoyed that it's really easy and it actually. It's really easy to do stuff that doesn't have any effect. And that's what disappoints me. I mean, look, let me get right out there.

[01:11:46] Look, all those groups have got comms people and whatnot raising awareness, we've got a comms team, but no one's producing any content with anybody information. It's all [01:12:00] PR it's all branding. And that kind of upsets me. If anyone doesn't know, I'm a grumpy, I'm a grumpy old man because we resources are so hard to get in conservation, I mean, is there a full-time staffer? Is there someone doing full time, practical conservation work? For the Western grandparent actually on the ground, in the habitat. I don't know. Cause it's all a bloody sacred. Yeah. There's

[01:12:25] Brenton See: a lot of volunteers that, but they're always asking for help,

[01:12:28] Grant Williams: but that that, that's the point on miking.

[01:12:32] Brendan is that always conservation efforts nowadays, governments of all colors and sizes doing the stuff based on other people giving their time. Yup.

[01:12:45] Brenton See: Yup. You have to be personally invested and care for something that's where the time is. So that just shows you how many people care about these things.

[01:12:54] They need help. They just don't have that care factor. So unless you have that care

[01:12:58] Grant Williams: factor, but we have [01:13:00] organized. Yeah, that have the responsibility to protect those things, right? Yeah. They called government. They called departments of conservation. We've got national, one

[01:13:09] Brenton See: of the species that draw tourism.

[01:13:11] Grant Williams: But that's not how the laws are drawn. That's not where the responsibility lies. It's not, we have the responsibility to save red birds, not green birds. Right. And that, so when, where I get frustrated and look polar fairly head me side a thousand times. If I follow any of my stuff that we shouldn't, it conservation shouldn't be based on volunteers.

[01:13:36] Right? If you can find it, if you can find $40 billion in job caper to give it to companies that don't need it, what was it? 14 all of the government, all the private schools that got job caper didn't need it. That money could have gone to buying habitat. So didn't need to get cleared and [01:14:00] actually done something.

[01:14:01] And that's where my frustration is that we were always saying, oh, it's too expensive. We can't find any money. And we're just pissed $40 billion out against the wall, giving it to Harvey Norman when he didn't need it. Right. Or Jerry Havi not having normal. So that's the kind of stuff that makes my blood boil.

[01:14:20] And I dunno. And then everyone wants you, bruh. You Brenton and you, Sally, can you give us a free picture that we can auction off to raise money? That's the kind of requests I'm sure you get, right. Whereas you think what, why the bloody zoo has got an interactive center for something? Why can't they find 20,000 bucks a year to do for the volunteers to do stuff?

[01:14:46] Why should people be having to give up their time and look and plays on not being super critical of the zoo or the friends of the grandparents. It's just set situation that we're, that we've all found ourselves in that. Everyone who loves [01:15:00] the birds or the plants or the quolls or the Quakers or the Dingo, or there's just so many the Patty melons, the bandicoots the Andi kindnesses, the corroboree frog it's that the Mary river turtle there, there's just so many examples of where people are having to give up their time to do something that the government should be doing while they're talking about building a.

[01:15:26] Billion dollar damn. That's the thing that frustrates, right. For that look put, tell us in the comments, whether I'm just a grumpy old boss, I should shut up because

[01:15:37] Brenton See: I think there's another thousand of you out there grant. I'm pretty sure there'll be another thousand of you.

[01:15:42] Grant Williams: There's got to be 50,000 of us actually.

[01:15:45] I should be in a better mood because we've kicked the bastards out on the way on the weekend. Right. That I'm sorry that don't want to be too political, but you know, we had a threatened species, recovery hub and this makes me feel better. [01:16:00] Thanks, Nicole. Totally agree. But I mean, that makes me feel better.

[01:16:03] Cause sometimes I feel like I'm shouting into a bloody heart, a hurricane but the country did something good for so many reasons, but hopefully conservation's going to have a chance in the next little while, but I'm a bit concerned and I'll tell you why. All I've heard in the last few days is climate change.

[01:16:22] And there's nothing wrong with that, but I haven't heard anyone whispering. Biodiversity by diversity. But so I'm a little bit concerned that there'll be all these targets and that Andrew forest will have his hand handout for some hydrogen money and Woodside will be looking for something and all the electricity companies who will be looking for some public money to do something with photovoltaics and wind farms, which is all needed, but I'm still not hearing any onsite biodiversity.

[01:16:55] Let's stop cutting down our old growth forest in Victoria, Dan Andrews, [01:17:00] Lily D'Ambrosio stop it, for an industry that supports less people then sell then shop assistance, selling Tatts lotto. And I don't hear anyone saying, save the tests, lotto, save the retail workers. I don't hear anyone saying that, but 300 people, they cut down trees.

[01:17:21] All of a sudden we can't afford to pay them out, it's anyway. Anyway, there we go. Thanks Nicole, for your support, because by jingos I'm getting old and grumpy and I've been shouting this stuff since 1984, I've been saying the same thing for that long,

[01:17:37] Sally Edmonds: that's where this comes in, isn't it?

[01:17:39] Grant Williams: Well, well, yeah, well I'm overdoing nothing about it, which is why I decided to I thought about making a podcast in, I thought about starting this in 2014. It took me until 2018. To actually do my first interview and actually put the thing out and now I try and put something out every [01:18:00] day. And hopefully it shifts the needle somewhere, but I can't talk to it.

[01:18:05] I can't talk to decision makers because all I want to do is talk to people that will go isn't that fantastic? What you did? I didn't even, I'm not even on the mailing list of the people who announced that they released captive bred orange bellied, parrots. Who's a natural ally channel 10 or me anyway, it's enough winning.

[01:18:27] I don't want to criticize people either, but I don't want to criticize him, but Jesus cross, sorry, I'll get now. I'm going to get assassinated for that. Yeah, it just seems not shunned either. So many people who want to do stuff and want to help. And it's all captured now with comms and PR and what'll look good and everything.

[01:18:47] And really all we need to do is share information and help people do the right thing. All we have to do is do the right thing. Yeah. Oh, Sarah would would his field of, I pronounced that right? Sarah, would this [01:19:00] field, is that the right thing? Thank you for the Facebook. Facebook love, I don't know if that was a thumbs up or a heart.

[01:19:07] So your daughter,

[01:19:08] Sally Edmonds: is it the way? And she's involved with that PI research and research. Okay, but they are, they're out in the world. They're not capturing

[01:19:18] Grant Williams: it. Is that the project about the the songs, the magpie vocalizations?

[01:19:23] Sally Edmonds: I don't know about. I don't know if there's, if it's that specific, they checking their cognition.

[01:19:29] It's very interesting. So

[01:19:30] Grant Williams: that, so that's Sarah, right? Yeah. Sarah hit me up. Sarah hit me up news@birdemergencythebirdemergency.com news@thebirdemergency.com. I want to talk about the magpie project and there's a Willie Wagtail one I think, going on over there too. And I want to talk about that.

[01:19:49] So yeah. Well, gang, I think we've taken up more than enough time of these working artists need to go. And

[01:19:57] I'd really like to talk to you both [01:20:00] again, perhaps a little bit more about process. Great. There we at Sarah's just told us this is. Project it is. And Matt, Amanda Ridley's research lab. I K well still do send me something in the email about at all. Sarah, if he could, I'd love to know Brenton been good to finally get get the audibles on each other and has, it's probably been about 18 months or so that we've been there.

[01:20:24] Oh, it's Amanda Babblers research. Oh, there we go. That's right. Isn't it Sarah, thumbs up if I'm right Amanda babbler. Or is that no, I think Amanda Bev was the African one. Now I think I've got that wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Sally fan. Really enjoyed making you too. And

[01:20:40] Sally Edmonds: I've only met Brunson cause I spoke to

[01:20:42] Brenton See: it's very small, but it's amazing how many artists they talk to each other.

[01:20:46] So one day when I was painting it a year or so it was nice to meet her properly probably.

[01:20:51] Grant Williams: Yeah. Yeah. And before we do the where can I find you and all that stuff, which you've got to do at the end, it's obligatory at the end of anything like [01:21:00] this. Nicole, thanks. I'm glad that I always feel ranty and shouty and grumpy and whatnot.

[01:21:06] Get thought up, but God has just actually write that out for me, Brendan, just so that when we do that, w when we do the audio release that people will know what Nicole's on about.

[01:21:18] Brenton See: Yeah. So Nicole's just said, thanks, Graham. It's been fascinating and so inspiring share information and do the

[01:21:24] Grant Williams: right thing.

[01:21:25] Fantastic. And that was on Facebook, I think, because you can interact. That's the whole point of doing those things. I love it. When people have something to say, I don't mind if you want to bag me out. Cause I'm happy to take on any, I'm happy to discuss anything that we're talking about.

[01:21:40] Brenton See: Passionate is better than not being passionate.

[01:21:42] Grant Williams: Oh, yeah, that's right. Because we could be down gathering a Palmer and a pot in the pub watching daytime television and going. Gee crewmate Swain. She's a genius. Now what Sarah told us babbler and Meg magpie, I such a great thank you.

[01:21:58] That would be good.[01:22:00] Effects of climate change and heat stress on cognition. Fantastic. That's exactly what we're all about. Finding out the research that people are doing and getting. Off some behind a paywall journal site and we'd talk about it and it's out there and anybody can learn and know and get interested.

[01:22:21] That's what the bird emergency is all about. Brenton. Where can people look up your stuff?

[01:22:28] Brenton See: Yeah, so I'm on most social media platforms. I'm on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook just taught my name in Brenton say, and it will come up.

[01:22:38] Grant Williams: Yeah. And I'll put all the, I'll put all the links on the on the page that we've got up for this little chat, which is the vert emergency.com/art.

[01:22:49] Sally, what about you? What would you like people to to look at and tell us where what can they do to help out the the centers? You better send me the info for [01:23:00] those two and I'll put those links.

[01:23:01] Sally Edmonds: If they want to support the centers. If you go onto my website, Sally abdomens.com, there are prints on there.

[01:23:08] Say profits donated the, either for Kenyatta or Cara can, if you buy one of those prints through the website or the profits will go through either of those centers I'd cover my costs just for the print, basically. And then I'm on Instagram at certainly Edmonds arts and face fix women's art.

[01:23:26] Grant Williams: Ah, you're going to get onto, let me get onto Twitter. And just put a S now, if you're listening eventually Sarah's put the badly research website, episodes, HTTP S slash all that stuff. Www dot babbler, hyphen research.com. If you're interested in that project before we get around talking about it and whatnot.

[01:23:52] So please get into that. You can check me out on Twitter. Lots of ranty stuff. I get a lot of politics. If I [01:24:00] see stuff that needs to be said at bird emergency, not the bird emergency, but the bird emergency is my instant. And of course the website is the bird emergency.com took about 15 minutes to sail that, to say goodbye, but it's that time of the day.

[01:24:19] Thanks Sally. Thanks Brendan. Thanks everyone. For joining in. That's great. Thanks for the Nicole Selly and Ramona a reminder, sanding up. Thank you. So it was great to get oh, we've got another bit of love too. And Katherine Rowe. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. The edited version of the audio will go out in the podcast feed eventually, but you can share this around the bird emergency.com/art.

[01:24:51] The video will be there as soon as soon as it's finished processing on YouTube later on. Thank you.

[01:24:57] Brenton See: Cool. Thank you.

[01:24:58] Sally Edmonds: Nice to see.

[01:24:59] Brenton See: [01:25:00] Nice to see you, Sally. 

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Bird Art, Brenton See, Conservation, murals, Public Art, Sally Edmonds, transcript, WIldlife Art


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